Unlocking Creativity : Inspirations behind our bestselling picture book series — Willow the Wonderer
- Reeta Dhar
- Jul 31
- 37 min read
Updated: Aug 1
What is the source of ideas and creativity?
"Where do your ideas come from?" This is one of the most common questions Darren and I (and no many other creatives) get asked.
The motivations tend to vary. Aspiring or practising creatives are always curious to learn and perhaps get inspired through the approach others take, while the audience are usually interested in getting deeper insights into works they like.
So for this next episode of our Wise As Podcast, we thought what better question to tackle than one that gets asked the most frequently.
It turned out to be a very enjoyable discussion, at least for us, with a tinge of nostalgia as it took us down the memory lane of life.
The good news for all aspiring artists out there is that we don't think creativity or ideas is 'rocket science' nor is it magic, but something that everyone willing to put in the work, can do.
To make the discussion as practical (and grounded in reality) as possible, we walked through the actual creative process and inspirations that went into developing our beloved (and bestselling!) picture book series — Willow the Wonderer.
We share our personal journeys, the works that inspire/influence us, the ups and downs of life, the adventures (and misadventures) and the work we have done through things like meditation to grapple with our mind and figure out life.
The discussion brings to life how these various influences found their way into our stories and the lessons we leave for our readers. Discover how everyday moments, deep introspection, and even social and political dynamics have shaped our storytelling - and get practical tips on harnessing your own creativity and learn how to bring your ideas to life.
Whether you're an aspiring artist, writer, or a reader of our Willow the Wonderer picture books and curious about what went on behind the scene, this episode is packed with insights and inspiration that we hope you will enjoy.
As always, you can watch the full podcast from the link above (or directly on youtube or spotify). For those short on time, I've summarised the key themes below and also provided the full transcript to improve accessibility.
Setting the Scene: A Search for Creative Sparks
Creating art often begins with a simple intention - whether it is to write a book or paint a picture or anything else.
While I believe there isn't any mystical process involved, the foundation of creativity (I think) lies in having made the commitment to do the work -- as it is a lot of work.
Once that commitment is made, it is then a matter of stepping back and relaxing, and trusting that your mind will churn through life experiences, consciously or subconsciously, and surface the memories, ideas and inspirations you can draw upon to complete your project.
We see creativity as neither being a series of random thoughts nor some divine epiphany. Rather, it's a mindful process of observation, reflection, and connection.
When you engage in this process, ideas tend to emerge in the mind in ways that can feel magical, even spooky. But we feel it is the intention, commitment and active engagement in the work that leads to this (and not some magic!).
We've seen this play out time and again over the past six years we have spent developing our bestselling picture book series, Willow the Wonderer.
Book 1: Willow the Wonderer — The Search for Happiness
"Willow the Wonderer" began with a walk on the beach, although seeds of the idea had been sown in our hearts and minds long before.
We were at the start of the COVID lockdown and during a walk on the beach, Darren and I resolved to use the time do a piece of work together. It is then that we discovered that we shared a dream (and had already done some of the foundational work) to develop a children's book that conveyed life's lessons.
The story is a parody of our lives. The moral of the story is an insight into the nature of mind that had taken us a long time to learn.
When we first released the book, we didn't really know how it will be received in the market. We were expecting that at best, it would have niche appeal, probably with folks who are into philosophy, contemplation and spirituality. How wrong were we ...
As it turns out, Willow's story deeply resonated with people all over Australia, from many different works of life. It turns out, many folks had had a similar life experience and then awareness as we did. We had written a fairly universal human story.
The illustrations in this book was inspired by Darren's childhood experiences and set the tone for all the books to come - rich colours, beautiful details and hidden creatures to discover within.
Book 2: Honey Time — The Art of Living in the Slow Lane
Our second book, Honey Time is a great example of how many different life experiences can collide to inspire a story.
In this case the life experiences ranged from attending a yoga class, to meeting Darren (someone who goes through life at a very relaxed pace) and then to a moment of intense frustration (when holidaying with Darren) which then transformed into a moment of profound insight.
As I internalised an important lesson in mindfulness on a hike in Great Keppel Island, the story of 'Honey Time' dropped into my mind.
In illustrating this book, Darren also ended up emulating the technique of marbling digitally, using this to capture the speed and craze in the first part of the story.
Book 3: Space Odyssey — Connecting on our common humanity
"Space Odyssey" was inspired by the social and political landscape of the past few years where identity politics and culture wars were coming to a head.
It was an uncomfortable place to be in as it seems in protecting strongly held beliefs around one identity or another, society was forgetting our common humanity ...
The feelings of discomfort and sadness I felt in the moment, as well as the inspirations I drew from the phenomena known as the 'Overview Effect' and understanding I had developed of the 'ego' from contemplative traditions, came together to inform and inspire the story you read in our third book.
The premise of the story itself came from the recollection of feeling different and alone as a child - and having that sense of separation and disconnection arise, time and again as an adult.
Both, personally and creatively, this was a difficult book to write. This is where having a strong sense of ethos is important in a creative process.
The one I have adopted for the Willow the Wonderer series is that the books will first and foremost be interesting narratives with characters and plots that are endearing and engaging to our readers ie they will read like storybooks rather than preachy, instructional menus ...
At the end of the day, I feel proud of what we managed to accomplish both from a narrative and illustrative standpoint - and I hope the message to "identify with" our common humanity is what our little readers carry with them through life.
I should also add (as forget to in the podcast) that the landscape in this book was inspired by the red centre of our beautiful home, Australia :)
Book 4: The Gift — The wisdom of impermanence
'The Gift' is inspired directly from the wisdom or insight of impermanence - all things, including this life, are temporary phenomena.
The story itself is based on an adventurous (read dangerous) solo hike I had done in Patagonia in 2019 when I found myself battling the elements alone, ill-prepared in a strange and hostile environment. Thankfully, I made it through...
The experience helped me internalise the wisdom of impermanence: When you find yourself in a storm, keep going, certain in the knowledge that this too shall pass.
I also used the opportunity to delicately address parting with a loved in the book as it is one of the most inevitable part of our lives but also one that we are so ill-prepared for ...
Darren chose the more traditional style of watercolour to illustrate this book - the soft, fleeting appearance aptly captured the mood of the narrative.
Creativity is a process
The creative process, much like the themes we explored, is a journey—a series of reflections, observations, and insights waiting to be transformed into something tangible.
It's about setting the intention, trusting the process, and allowing the inspiration to unfurl.
If you too are embarking on a creative adventure of your own, we hope you find inspiration in the unlikeliest of places, just as we did. We go into a lot more detail in the podcast so take the opportunity to listen or read the transcript below.
And as always, when given the opportunity, please support our work and give your little ones the gift of wisdom.
Transcript of Episode 5 : Unlocking creativity - Finding inspiration in unexpected places
Reeta: Ready for the next conversation?
Darren: Ready as I'll ever be.
Reeta: It's been a couple of weeks 'cause both of us were down with a cold.
Darren: Don't, don't bore 'em
Reeta: we've been away for a while.
Darren: Oh, you need to give an excuse. Yeah.
I'm sure they weren't
hanging on there on tender hooks for us.
Reeta: You never know.
Darren: Sure. They were running through the street screaming.
Reeta: Anyway, we are back, uh, with the latest episode and today we are looking on the lighter side and brighter side of life.
We are talking ideas and creativity 'cause one of the questions that we tend to get a lotis where do your ideas come from?
Darren: Our ideas for the book specifically.
Reeta: No. We'll start with the big picture and then we'll talk about our books
Darren: Really. Okay.
Reeta: Okay. you didn't read the brief, did you?
Darren: Never. Okay. I wing it.
Reeta: All right, let's get started.
Reeta: You've been in the creative industry for a very long time.
Darren: Yes. Yeah.
Reeta: Where do ideas come from?
Darren: I think there, things I've seen, I don't think it's some magic bolt lightning that comes from the heavens.
I think it's something I've seen in a movie or in real life in a book, just absolutely anywhere, going for a walk and I just see something quirky that somebody does, and I respond to it, it appeals to me, so I lock it into my database and, draw upon that. It's part of my creative pool, my schema of ideas that I draw upon.
So, yeah. why I am drawn to certain things, like, I like things a little bit darker. I like things that are a bit quirky, but I also like things that are heart-based and beautiful.
So, I like ideas that combine a better them both. And, I dunno where that comes from. That's just some inner psychology. I guess, initially,
Reeta: You've got a dark side.
Darren: Yeah, and a light side,
Reeta: But I guess that's life, right? it's sort of that interplay between light and darkness.
I think some have more of one than the other,
So, yeah, it's a big question. Where does creativity come from?
I'm with you. I too don't, like when people, you know, give, give the process, give ideas, and the process of creation too much airs and graces, because one, it makes it seem inaccessible to many people. I don't think there's something magical and spooky about it.
I see it as more of a process. It starts with an intention to do a piece of work, orto someone who may be working professionally, it's a brief that you receive to do a piece of work.
So, that's the first stimulus to say, okay, I want to do this piece of work, and, what do I do? As soon as you've set that expectation for yourself, uh, your brain starts churning away and your mind starts churning away. Even if you don't think about it consciously, or especially when you don't think about it consciously, your mind is still subconsciously working away because it knows it has to do that task.
So you become more aware of things around you, um, that, that might relate to it, that might relate to it, to could be, oh, maybe I could use that. And often people would describe this as an epiphany. But what it is, is you had an intention to do a piece of work, and now at some level, you're more aware of things that can help inform that piece of work and inspire and extend.
And I don't think it's really one major epiphany. It's generally a series of ideas that emerges and there's some that you are just a bit excited about and then you sort of park it away and then you develop it and then more ideas come, and so on and so forth. So it really is for me, I would say a process.
I think where this discussion will go which I think is the more interesting discussion, is the different sources of inspirations that we tend to draw upon when we do a piece of work. I would like to make it very practical and take you through the journey we've been on with our Willow the Wonderer Series and share at a very practical level, here's where the ideas and inspiration came from and here's how we developed it.
Darren: So picture books have two sides. There's the story and the writing, and then there's the illustration, which is also part of the storytelling. we've taken a very interesting, unique, quirky kind of approach. The stories are unusual and that's something we intentionally set out to do . Um, and the illustrations are unique and, very,
Reeta: And, and, uh, convey, I guess extend the story, which is what you wanted to do.
Darren: Humbly unique.
Yeah. So, so maybe that's, that's where we head,unless at a broad level you wanted to share a few more things. ~cause~ Creatives do make a meal out of ideas, Okay, it's about me now my turn.
So I've just had a thought. When I used to do a lot more editorial illustrations for magazines, I used to read a brief, read the story and produce, an image, whether it be a small vignette or a full page. it could be for any magazine, Time Magazine, Rolling Stone, you name it.
And they give me the story and I think, my God, that's a strange story. What do I do for that? But I'd read it a couple of times and sometimes I'd, in the early days, I'd panic and I thought, my God, the deadlines looming. I've only got a couple of days. And I didn't have an idea. And I learnt that it was because I was forcing the idea.
what I learned is to trust my mind. And treat it like a computer that I just input data. I say, okay, listen down. I want this idea. It's gotta combine this, this has to say this to this type of audience. And then I just leave it, I forget about it.
And I go for a run. I ride the bike, or I'd just be splashing my face in the morning and it would just drop. The idea would just be there. Boom. Complete. And it was just like magic. And I just learned to trust that it was my mind just working away in the background. And then the idea would just form by itself and go boom.
And it was just, yeah, that's, so I wanted to share that.
Reeta: I've had a similar experience with the Willow the Wonderer Series, in that, I don't force, the ideas for the stories or the premise, I know that, I have to finish one book a year, which isn't a huge goal... I know I won't win any awards for productivity... but I know that come Christmas, I have to start on the next Willow the Wonderer Book so that it's written in time, for illustrations and October launch. And so that's always in my mind. When I'm having a quiet moment, if I'm sitting quietly at the beach, on our afternoon walks, or I'm sitting for meditation, an idea will sometimes drop and I'll be like, ah, you know, and you feel excited about that idea. There's something that says there's something there. It's never complete. It still needs to be worked up and, taken to interesting places beyond what the initial premise is. And that's it. It's more like a premise than, or it's more like a little inkling of an idea that has to be developed further.
Darren: I was specifically talking about editorial illustration and the concepts that drop were complete. It was a combination of this, this, and this that I told you, okay, I want this, this, and this. And then it would just organically go, boom, there it is. So,
Reeta: This is working off a brief and knowing the directions.
Darren: Exactly. Yeah.
Reeta: And that's really interesting, isn't it? but again, it's not spooky, is it? It's just spooky telling your mind.
Darren: That's spooky.
That's pretty spooky. I think that's kind of spooky.
Reeta: I think it's more the fact that you've provided all this input into your mind and it is churning away in the background and when you're in a relaxed state, it tells you, okay, bolt.
Darren: It is kind of like the bolt lightning.
But there is a difference because when I see the complete concept, I can see the parts where I've got that from. So it's spooky in a sense because I wasn't expecting it.
Reeta: I mean, I agree with that. it's always a nice feeling, a bit of a rush when an idea does pop into your mind, doesn't it?
Darren: Yeah. it means you can just chill a bit.
Reeta: Yeah, you should chill. But I guess if you are someone who's listening to this, who wants to do a piece of work or aspires to do something, whether it's a painting, write a book, or whatever, and you feel that the starting point is having an idea, I guess if you take away anything from this it's that it isn't really, it's about an intention that you want to do this piece of work, and this is the sort of work that you are drawn to that you like and that you'd like to do.
Have that intention and tell yourself that, you want to do this piece of work and relax, be quite relaxed about it, and give yourself space and time for inspiration to arise in your mind.
that's really the start of the creative, journey of a piece of creative work at least in my experience.
Darren: Relax and just let it happen.
Reeta: Okay. time to get a bit more practical and talk through our Willow the Wonderer Series, which is four books strong. We are working on the fifth and final book in the series at the moment. It's written, so Darren's illustrating it now.
I think this will make it more tangible and give you an idea of the unexpected places you can draw inspiration from once you are doing a piece of work.
This is the first book, Willow the Wonderer. And this, this is work, we started in April, 2020 to be very, exact.
And the reason I know this is because, well it was not April, it was May, 2020 because. In March, the country went into lockdowns. I went into a two month solitary retreat, and when I came out, I started writing the book.
Darren: Do you wanna explain what solitary retreat is to people who aren't okay with what retreats are?
Reeta: I did a meditation retreat. I, have been a student and practitioner of meditation, for a long time I had this aspiration to spend time in a long retreat. I had done 10 day retreats, but I wanted to do something much longer so I could have go deeper into the practice.
Darren: So that's a retreat. it was COVID,
Reeta: so yeah. Let me finish this story. Okay. If you're okay, just relax.
Darren: Just, you know. Just trying to, you know, don't I can, I can just see them all leaving.
Reeta: No, they're not the
Darren: room.
Reeta: Darren found me a hut in a forest that he had volunteered to build in the mid north coast.
I, hired that hut and spent 60 days living there on my own during the COVID lockdown, the first COVID lockdown period that went on from probably end of March, April, may, was about 60 days, wasn't it? End of May. 'cause it ended as my retreat ended.
So for 60 days I lived in a hut by myself, didn't speak to anyone and just practiced meditation, from morning to evening, maybe 12 to 14 hours a day.
And, you know, it was a wonderful experience because it was my investigation into the nature of mind and understanding what the mind is, what thoughts are, and how to navigate it all. So it was a very profound experience. Before we went into that, Darren and I had met, and, during a walk one day, I shared with him an intention that I had, which was to write a children's book that conveyed,wisdom and knowledge that I felt was not provided to us in all the narratives that we grew up with.
And by that stage I had been exploring the eastern, philosophical tradition, so yoga, and eastern contemplative tradition, so Buddhism.
I had been studying and exploring that in my early adulthood years as I was trying to make sense of life and what it was all about and how I was going to live mine. And I realized that there's so much valuable insights into the nature of mind, into this whole idea of life and living that was just never part of mainstream narrative.
And I just thought to myself, oh my God, had I known these things... why is this knowledge so difficult to get? And two, you know, why don't we,
Darren: it's just difficult to access. It's not difficult to get, it's just, well,
Reeta: that's what I mean by get, it's difficult to, it's not available in the mainstream.
Darren: No, you can't pick it up from a shelf in the corner store. Can you?
Reeta: Well, you can if you know that this is the book you should read, but it's just not part of mainstream narrative and conversation. And for someone who came from the Eastern tradition, it was a bit of, you know, why wasn't this told to me?
This is my heritage. I should have been taught this from a very young age. And this is not criticizing anyone, but it's sort of saying how the more you know, the more the essence of life and living that's contained in this sort of traditions has just sort of fallen off mainstream narratives. And I just don't understand why
Darren: It's never there in the Western culture. It's never been there.
Reeta: Okay, that's true. It's probably a little bit
Darren: in the sixties and then it kind of dropped off.
Reeta: It's probably the impact of Westernization, but even in Eastern traditions, the bias is more towards the more, ritualistic based, practice as opposed to the philosophical aspect.
Which I feel frankly is the more relevant in today's world So anyway, there was a part of me that by that stage was thinking, you know what, i'm going to write a book for kids that tells them these things that took me such a long time to find out, and I had started writing and illustrating a book and realize that I really cannot illustrate a book. I had made a valiant attempt at illustration.
Darren: Yeah, you did.
Reeta: And, had sort of begun exploring different types of stories and, and how to tell stories. There were a few elements that I had already established in my mind I'm not gonna be preachy, It's not gonna read like a manual. It's going to be a storybook. It's going to have a wonderful, fantastic, engaging story and it's going to be illustrated, um, because it was going to be targeted at young children because it's at that age, you know, you have to plant seed of wisdom early and it's never too early to plant seed of wisdom.
So I had done that piece of work and I was sharing with Darren, Hey, this is what I've been sort of working on in the background. And I knew, of course he was an illustrator by then, and I said, would you be interested?
And so then Darren shared me his story.
I remember, we had a lot of time on our hands and we went for a walk on the beach. And then it was, you know, we should do something.
Darren: We should produce something. What have you got? Have you got any ideas? And it's then that I told you about my idea.
you told me about your book with the river and all that sort of stuff. That's how I remembered it. But it all started with a walk on the beach.
Reeta: Remember we did have a lot of time in our hands, you are right in that I did say we should work on something together because the country had already been shut down, which is why I was in Hyland Park with you.
And then you shared this idea you had about Willow the Wonderer that you've attempted to get off the ground a few times, but hadn't quite
Darren: Once before.
Reeta: Oh, once before. Okay. Yeah. But hadn't quite managed to. Yeah,
Darren: I took it to a publisher I'd done a couple of books with, and they just said it was more self-help than a children's book genre.
Reeta: Darren then shared this story that he had in mind, and this first stanza, which, credit goes to him is, is how the book appeared in his mind. Right?
Darren: It was just there. It was just pretty much, About my life It's about being, very successful professionally in life and satisfying my ego goals, and then feeling deflated and thinking that, there's more.
So it's pretty much, my life. what's interesting about this is one of the concepts I've got running through this all the animals and the bits and pieces that you. Have to find in it. They're all hidden in the landscape, almost seamless, seamlessly.
Reeta: Can you just hold that thought, because going back to the, discussion we had about how sometimes ideas just pop into your head, you were obviously going through deep introspection about your life and reflecting, did you have an intention to do a children's book by that stage?
Darren: Well, I was in illustrator, I'd already done a couple of children's books. So it was easy for me to think about a children's book, a way of communicating on a bigger scale to people that idea.
Reeta: Yeah. And what's interesting to me is when Darren told me the story, he said he had this verse appear in his mind, which was really the catalyst for the work.
And the verse is the first verse of our Willow the Wonderer series, which is:
Willow the Wonderer, woke up one day, wondering about happiness and where it lay.
He shared that stanza with me and told me the premise of the story- so this little boy goes wandering from home and he looks everywhere searching for happiness.
As he described that concept to me, it resonated deeply because, darren says it was his life story and I felt it was my life story. And in fact, it's resonated with a lot of our readers who felt that it's their life story, because that's what we do- we, grow up and, you know, we all aspire to be happy, right? It's, it's common human aspiration that we all have.
And we go out into the world searching for happiness in all the places outside. And, you know, some of us have a good time. Sometimes it's a good experience. You sort of have fun and enjoy the experience, but when we have that moment of honesty, we realize, well, happiness isn't quite outside there, is it?
And I guess one of the things that Darren well is
Darren: There's a lot of, short-lived happiness. Sensations.
Yeah. But It's not a contentment, enduring kind of, contentment. Yeah. That brings us peace and calms us down that we are kind of looking for, Yeah. It's more drug.
Reeta: Exactly. It's more the highs and lows of life. And that's exactly the journey. Willow goes in, you know, he's a kid who goes out looking for happiness, has a great time, but then as each experience ends, he's like, huh, where is this happiness?
And so it was our life story.
It's everyone's life story in some ways. Oh, well,
Darren: not everyone's, but it was ours.
Reeta: Yeah. And it's resonated with a lot of people. Yeah. Because it's a common life experience, but what I guess I was trying to say, is that, the element we hadn't quite resolved at that stage is what is the lesson?
And Darren had a few ideas at that stage that it's not about the destination, it's about the journey, et cetera. And, you know, whilst I can understand that, to me, you know, even the journey can be shit sometimes, it's not a given that you'll enjoy the journey. so to me that is not the essence of the wisdom.
Darren: No. I just thought it was, just accept the journey and, you know, even if it's a bad journey, if you arrived at a good place, then it was worthwhile. Just be reflective and have some wisdom about the journey, I think.
Reeta: Yeah, and that's where, that's where the creative process was interesting because there was a spark and, We put our head together and said, well, what can we do with the concept?
And we developed it into this story that was almost a parody of our life, about going out everywhere, looking for happiness and having moments where you say, okay, I did not find the happiness I was looking for.
And then having that moment where you become quiet and you settle down and say, well, what is the insight? We debated the insight quite a bit. What is the, so what we're gonna leave our readers with? Because part of the conundrum was, the age group we were writing the book for, I personally, when I set out to do this piece of work, I did not want to do pop psychology kind of pieces that appease, that is so surface level it doesn't really, say anything. Even though we are writing for a young reader, I wanted to leave, real insights that even if they don't completely comprehend at that age, It's gonna stay with them and it'll grow. And when the time is right, that seed will blossom and they'll get it, it'll go back to that story they heard when they were a kid and it'll make sense.
And to me that was the win. And from a creative viewpoint, that was my position that I wanted to bring into the book. That was my authentic, creative position.And so we pushed at that idea and even worked it through with the editors to finally land on what we did as the, conclusion of the book.
And the conclusion only arrived right at the end, you know, and we were still debating it even as we went into the second printing of the book, whether it was the right one.
And I held my ground because that's my authentic position that I want the book to say this. I'm the author at the end of the day, and this is what the story needs to say because this is my lived experience.
And that lived experience was of course, I mean, we can say it bit of a spoiler, but you know,
Darren: No, they should find out for themselves.
Reeta: Do you reckon?
Darren: Yeah, definitely.
Reeta: Okay. Well, for those who have the book, okay. For those who have the book, you know.
But that's what I mean, there was inspiration ideas and we develop it. And just listening to Darren describe the art he wanted to do for the book, it just occurred to me, What if we incorporate counting into the book? Because then there's a reason for kids to engage, kids and adults to engage in the illustrations because, they're learning to count and they're having to find all these creatures that Darren has sort of hidden into the landscape.
Darren: Cunningly as well. I'd say cunningly,
Reeta: although I think the kids kind of outsmarted you, didn't they?
yeah. Do you want me to tell you landscape about where that came from? Yeah. Because I think that's quite an interesting, yeah.
Darren:
I was at my, uh, grandmother's and she used to have a. A fire, an open fireplace. And I used to sit for hours and I used to just watch the flames. I was just enchanted by them. I used to sit there and watching them glow and I'd see scenes and I'd, I'd imagine, um, objects in them and, and narratives and, and scenes carrying on.
And, and, uh, that's what I incorporated into this book because this came along and I thought I could, you know, it was such a, a good idea to actually, you know, the idea when you look up in a cloud and you think, oh my God, I can almost see something in it. Mm
Reeta: Yeah. So, it sort of evolved as we worked and different ideas dropped in at different points in time. even, even, for example, this stanza here:
Seven frolicking dolphins, eight tumbling shells, nine rollicking starfish...
and then it has to be something like swells but I couldn't quite get it. Darren and I went for a walk. and we are near Tamarama I think. And we were standing and staring at the big waves coming in it's just fascinating when you stand on the clifftop and you see all the surfers. Darren turned to me and said, surfing salty swells, and that was it. And
Darren: I think I might licked, salt crystal for my, my cheek or something
And it just fell into place.
Reeta: It's like, yeah, surfing salty swells. That's it. Another interesting, memory I have of this book is, I was thinking of what creatures to include in the first page and I had one lazing lion, two snoring bears 'cause he is in a mountain so it had to be creatures that can be found in a mountain realistically.
And I'm thinking, which creatures do we include? We were in Hyland Park at this stage and went to the beach, Valla beach, to see the sunrise. As we are sitting this majesticsea eagle just rises up
All the suns ray just fell on it and it was like, that's it. it's a soaring eagle. And That soaring eagle is an eagle we actually saw, there sitting on the beach.
So that's an example, of an idea. you had incubated in your mind for 20 years, wasn't it? By the time we started working on it,
Darren: pretty much, yeah. yeah.
It must have been.
Reeta: So a 20-year-old idea, a spark that we then developed into the first book, and that was going to be it.
But as we launched the book, it started resonating, didn't it?
Darren: Yeah.
It started the ball rolling and we've got a few more on the way.
So you wanna move on to honey time? Yeah,
Reeta: yeah, exactly. Because that's a bit of
Darren: a interesting story, isn't it?
Reeta: So Honey Time is inspired by Darren.
When I first went to his place, Darren, was cooking me a pasta dish and I saw him working and he was really taking his time. And, you know, I'm efficient when it comes to cooking. I've grown up in a big family. I've been cooking since I was, walking. And so I'm very efficient in the kitchen and I get, you know, shit done and get out right.
Darren: Trumpet sounds...
Reeta: So Darren's cooking pasta and he picks up an onion and it feels, like he is staring at the onion for a whole hour before he starts cutting it. I was just chuckling to myself a little bit and
Darren: was staring at the fire at my grandma's. That's what I was doing.
that's spot looking for inspiration in the onion
Reeta: that kind of describes the pace at which you go through life. Yeah,
Darren: exactly.
Reeta: Fast forward a few years. I'm at a yoga studio
I think it was Dara's class, and everybody's rushing through, She, stopped everyone and said, you're not practicing yoga the way you're supposed to, You're supposed to be in the moment and enjoy the movement be aware of all movement and have that awareness as you transition in and out of poses. To help people slow down what she said is, imagine you are in a world filled with honey and move, like you would move through that world. I remember thinking to myself, That's an interesting thought and I parked it away.
And years later I meet Darren and he actually moves through life as if the world is filled with honey.
I smile about it and over time as we got to know each other, I started calling him Honey Boy.
Darren: When the irreverent starts kicking in, after the honeymoon period
Reeta: So anyway, we go on a holiday during Christmas and we are on a hike on the Great Kepple island in Queensland. And of course Darren's dragging his feet whilst I'm powering ahead. I sort of look back at him and I'm getting frustrated 'cause I really want to get to the end point of the hike, which was a beautiful lagoon that you can snorkel in, but it was a tidal lagoon, so we had to get there, before low tide.
And he's bloody taking his time. And I'm thinking, oh, come on man.
And out of that frustration it just occurred to me, what if the next book is about Willow being trapped in honey and going through life at a really slow pace. it just dropped into my head, the whole honey boy, the whole yoga experience. It collided into this narrative. the lesson for everyone is to slow down and be still. I was in this beautiful environment and all I could think of was getting to my destination. I wasn't enjoying the experience and it just clicked to me. Well, there's the lesson.
Darren: Yeah.
Reeta: And that was the premise for the second book.
Darren: Honey time.
Reeta: Honey time.
Darren: Mm-hmm.
Reeta: What about the illustration? Do you wanna talk anything about the illustration in terms of style? Because you did some interesting things here.
Darren: Okay. Yeah, so I guess I'm interested in technology. So I've combined traditional painting with some digital effects and I play around with filters and all sorts of things just to sort of keep me interested and challenged.
Reeta: it was interesting because it looked like, the marbling technique.
Darren: that's where I started the marbling technique that's just another effect you can get on the computer. I like mixing them up and challenging myself.
that was Honey Time Space Odyssey. how did we come up with that one?
Reeta: Space Odyssey is a slightly controversial one. The premise of the story came from the sociopolitical environment we found ourselves in and My discomfort with identity politics and the culture wars that were playing out at the time.
Darren: Mm-hmm.
Reeta: Um, I was really trying to reconcile all the different, viewpoints, arguments, and, it was getting quite heated between different groups that were pushing one identity or challenging the notion of it. It has sort of settled down, but at that time it was at peak, combat zone where everybody was, very opinionated one way or another and either virtue signaling very heavily or really dissing down on the other person really heavily and it wasn't a great environment. So, you know, I am, by that stage, I have moved on. I, I am an adult.
Darren: Speak for yourself.
Reeta: By that stage, I had moved beyond this whole kind of notion of identity. One of the things I have found in my life personally is as a young person, there's a lot of pressure on you as you're coming off age, to really have a sense of self and to define yourself.
And one of the traps we tend to fall into as we seek to do this is we choose different groups and communities and alliances and identities I'm Rita. I'm a woman, I'm a feminist. I'm progressive, hardass, left off center. I'm bothy,
It's only later in life that you realize it's actually quite limiting because it puts you into a box it doesn't matter, what anyone else thinks about that tag. You know, there may be some parts of the audience would think, oh, progressive is a good thing. But some people may say, oh, it's a progressive, you know,
Darren: very hippies.
Reeta: You tend to always create a sense of separation from another group of people. Whatever box you pigeonhole yourself in is never going to describe you completely.
There's always going to be elements of the stereotype. Even say something as broad as a woman. You know, there's all these preconceived notions of a woman that feminists have fought for many years. But even that idea of feminism has so many preconceived notions to it that it may not describe, the stance of a person down to a T.
And so I always struggled with identity because I never neatly fitted into a box and I don't think anyone does. One of my discomforts has been this realization of how much we are pushed and told that you have to be in a box. You have to have a sense of self. That's when you find your community.
What growing up, and especially exploring the spiritual traditions and the contemplative traditions taught me is this idea of ego. Ego in the spiritual yogic or Buddhist traditions doesn't mean, egoistical behavior or what it means is identity. It means labels and tag.
These are all social constructs and, we create this image of ourselves and then we put it on a pedestal, and then we protect it and we develop a very strong attachment towards it, to the extent where if anybody challenges, that image, we rile up and we fight.
I was seeing that happening in the social environment, on social media, in the discourses, in mass media, and I just felt that young people were being led astray, What I found through my years of practicing things like meditation, is that true freedom lies in letting go of these egoistical constructs of self.
These. manmade notions of identity and the more you let go of it, the greater freedom you find and the less it becomes about looking at another person and finding an us and them kind of comparison and being able to relate to them at a human level. Which is what we should all do anyway.
I understand the positives of identity politics and I understand that, there are groups of people who are marginalized and, discriminated against and identity politics has been the lever through which they have fought for their rights and, got equality, in the society. And that's all well and good.
But I think once you reach that normalized position, it's important to also just relax and let go of that identity a little bit and embrace the broader, aspect of yourself as a person and relate to the other on grounds that are common instead of finding things that are different.
So really, Space Odyssey was born from that insight, from that awareness that freedom comes from letting go of these constructs of self. And so that's where the story is.
You know, Willow wakes up feeling alone and different because he's got this notion of who Willow is.
And then he goes on this epic journey searching everywhere in the world for other people like him.
Darren: Every time he met someone, he found some dimension along which they were different. And so he never really found that sense of community. Even when he met other donkeys or asses, he saw what was different, that's where the idea and story evolved the insight or wisdom referenced in this was, something you had shared with me, which is about The overview effect.
Reeta: Yeah, the overview effect, is,
Darren: the experience that astronauts get. when they view the earth from outer space and they just see it as a sort of pale blue dot, you know, in the gigantuan universe, and they, they have an affinity for the whole of mankind, and don't see the separation of people.
they don't see the walls and borders. They just see us all in one place, in one home, and they become overwhelmed They feel a connection to mankind. They feel more empathetic.
They understand the fallacy of these manmade constructs that differentiate, And they want to protect The environment a bit more.
Reeta: They feel connected, right? Yeah. They feel connected to everyone on earth, at a human level.
And when we let go of all these constructs of gender and race and religion and political ideologies, that's what we are left with. We are left with our humanity. that's the message of that book, if you had to find an identity, it's that identity. Yeah. It's your common humanity Exactly.
That you need to connect on.
Darren: Exactly.
Reeta: And so that's how I felt so deeply in my bones as all these culture wars we are playing with. If I could tell one thing to young people who are feeling isolated and lonely and different, it's that you are not. Let go of these constructs that society has created and understand you belong. The fact that you exist in this world means you belong and nobody can take that away from you. That's what Willow discovers at the end when he, sees Earth from above and feels that sense of connection, that he's, part of everything in the world, and he's deeply connected.
So when I signed this book for young kids, I actually leave that message -stay connected. Because I think that's a feeling that we are born with. But then we hear all these stories about differences that we start feeling more and more, isolated. And it's really sad that we do that to ourselves and each other.
This was a very heartfelt piece for me. It was a difficult thing to write, and a difficult idea to develop.
But I think, at the end of the day, these books are not preachy. This is about a fantastic narrative, and the narrative is fantastic. It's an adventurous quest that Willow goes through, to search for others like him. And then, through the course of his adventure He has that insight and understanding.
Darren: Yeah. It's a good one.
Reeta: I should also add, before we move on to the fourth and final book, one of the things I realized as I finished the fifth book is I've actually been following that hero's journey kind of archetype for every book I've written.And that's because I grew up steeped in fables and mythology. That was the main narrative structure that I grew up with in my life.
Darren: Yeah.
Reeta: I've never read, Joseph Campbell's work, until now. and I've never had, a formal education in this, in this sort of narrative archetype. I've never had a formal education mythology, and the structure and the way the story is constructed.
But when I started writing, I, I, I pretty much followed, you know, the exact structure. Mm. Without
Darren: all the, our nature, all the archetype. Exactly,
Reeta: you know, event happens that challenges your notion of reality. And then you go on his quest, you may meet someone who guides you. And, then through this kind of encounters you have these epiphanies and that's the hero's journey.
So every book is actually based on that archetype.
Darren: Did you want me to explain a bit about the art? Yeah, yeah. In this one.
Reeta: What were your inspirations there?
Darren: To keep it interesting for me, I developed a, a, you know, the, the technique where you oil and water doesn't mix and it creates a kind of a marlin effect.
If you drop, water into oil paint or oil into water based paints, you get this sort of marble effect. I developed this technique. digitally, in fact. as I was working away, I just, my hand slipped and I, I used this, you know, this waken pen and it, and I kind of slipped outta my hand and I dropped all this ink onto the illustration it gave me a really nice effect,
Reeta: So you used the marbling effect. Yeah. You first developed it for honey time, and then you carried it. In, space Odyssey.
Darren: So, yeah. So in,
so in Space Odyssey, I developed a marbling effect a bit further. and it was just purely by accident. What I've learned is to embrace the accidents. I call 'em happy accidents and be open to them. So to just be open to making mistakes and not just discard them, but look at them for potential for producing something authentic and something new.
So, I made a mistake with the effect that I developed. In Space Odyssey, I just dropped paint on the floor, but I, I'd actually dropped it onto the screen and, it created this effect, which I parked for a while. And then looking back on it created something that I hadn't seen before in any children's book.
So, yeah. Proud of this.
Reeta: Mm-hmm. The, the, so I mean, if I were to just wrap up this, this inspirations for the book, the genesis of the story was really the social political environment, but also the scientific work and the inspirations, that, Darren had through space travel. I mean, you as a kid, you loved astronauts, didn't you?
That sort of a story.
Darren: I wanted to be whisked away, by aliens into outer space That was my longing to be up there in the stars.
Reeta: And it was also my childhood as well. that feeling that Willow wakes up with where he feels alone and different is a feeling I've had, when I was little.
In fact, one of the reviews we got for the book, series overall recently was, from a parent, a mum who wrote that the stories, the events in the book resonate very well to a child. It's very relatable and I was very happy to read that because, when I'm writing and developing the stories, I go back to the deep feelings and emotions I used to have as a child And feeling alone, even though I was in a big family, was part of it. You'll see a bit of Vincent in the story, in the illustrations.
Darren: There he is. there's sunflowers
Reeta: in pretty much all Willow the Wonderer books. And that's,a common love we have.
and I guess one of the other pieces of work that I read a few times and listened to a few times was Carl Sagan's. blue dot
Darren: Pale blue dot.
Reeta: Pale blue dot. It's a very interesting story the way he describes those Apollo missions, is that here they were, all these astronauts were going to the moon and their sites were set on the. And off they went. They built, this huge space program, built all that spaceship, and launched and had all these feats. And the biggest discovery they had was when they turned back and looked at the earth rise Yeah. From space. they realized wow.
Darren: Yeah. Yeah. They, they got more than they thought they'd got, but it wasn't what they thought they'd achieve.
Reeta: So all those influences went into it. And I hope, I, I hope people can take away from that- it's never just one thing, but a whole host of different inspirations and ideas coming in to form a complete piece of work.
The Gift. This is probably one of the main books where the inspiration was directly referencing an insight from a contemplative tradition which is this idea of impermanence.
Darren: Yeah.
So we wanted to develop a book that conveys impermanence. Yeah. That life, you know, things come and go. Even your life, eventually,
Reeta: Even your life. And we do touch on. I guess in a very delicate way, we touch on death and grief at the end. but very delicately we talk on partying with a loved one and, for some kids it's an experience they have, unfortunately, at a very young age. so it was important I felt to address it.
But impermanence was really the theme and it's a central part of the Buddhist, philosophy. But again, it's in all sort of different traditions in, mythological and fable traditions coming from Persia, for example.
That phrase, this too shall pass. Mm-hmm. derives from the mythologies from Persia.
Darren: George Harrison covered it too in all things must pass. And he was deep into Eastern philosophy.
Reeta: So this really started with the message, and the message was impermanence.
And again, I don't want to write a preachy book. It has to be a good story. I ended up reflecting on my life and thinking where did I learn the lesson of impermanence the most?
And, um, the story itself is based on a really, difficult hike. I went on a 10 day solo hike in the wilds of Patagonia and, un bad planning on my part. I ended up alone on the trail for the first three days. as the weather was deteriorating, a storm was raging and early in the season when, there was a lot of snow cover still on the trail, so you couldn't really see the trail.
And so it was, it, those first three days on the trail alone was very edgy and, a lot of fear, a lot of uncertainty, all those things you have to deal with and difficulties because you're climbing up icy slopes without the proper gear and sliding and slipping there's this massive storm and Patagonian winds.
So I went through, probably physically the most difficult thing I had done in my life. I wasn't, adequately, prepared but, I persevered I had this really strong connection and awareness to an inner voice and inner guide that kept urging me to keep going, not to stop. And, almost guided me, in this strange environment on exactly what to do.
And so it was a very profound experience for me. I got very close to nature and also learnt, an important lesson in calming the mind down listening, making decisions, and most importantly, keep going, which became the message in the book.
Yeah. So let's not keep going. Let's wrap up the talk. You have to talk about anything you want to talk about with the illustrations. Like, what was it? It's a different style in this one. Yeah.
Darren: This is more sort of watercolor, it's back to more of a traditional way of producing a book.
And I think it was just, I had done a bit more experimenting with digital effects and went back to nature. So this is just a traditional watercolor look.
Reeta: There a few other inspirations. The Fox, the whole book, the landscape is actually based on Tibet.
Right. Because we were referencing, wisdom from the Buddhist tradition. a lot of our training has come from Tibetan Buddhist traditions. The landscape of the book was based on Tibet. if you have looked at the fox and felt, oh, that's an unusual looking fox, it's because it's based on the Tibetan fox.
Darren: Yeah. And when we talk about, Buddhism, we're not talking about the religious aspect of Buddhism.
Reeta: We're talking about Buddhist philosophy.
Secular, we're talking about secular, which is how more secular philosophy, I guess we understood and practiced. And a lot of people in the west, that's how they practice it.
and the only other inspiration was actually our trip. to Tibet.
Darren: Yeah, I fed a Marmite
so I'd put him in every page of the book. the kids have to find certain animals or items in all the books.
Reeta: So it was a pretty fat marm.
Darren: It was well fed. I always think I was hungrier than that mom when I met him. I felt like taking his food.
Reeta: So hopefully that gives everyone an idea of just how varied the influences can be. Ideas come from many different paces. You find inspiration everywhere, really.
And, it's about, doing the work to bring it all together to produce something that is a complete statement.
Darren: It's about intent focus and then relaxing and, trusting, yourself really. And confidence.
Reeta: Exactly. for my part, one last thing I would say is it doesn't happen overnight.
I play with the idea in my mind for a good six months before I put pen to paper, and I know people work differently, but that works for me.
I'll have different ideas and keep patching it in my mind and constructing a story, a narrative arc. then, I really only put pen to paper, during Christmas, new Year, that's when I start. Three months of solid writing and editing is what leads to the narrative.
But I have developed the story for six months in my mind.
What about you with the illustrations? Do you just work it? Yeah.
Darren: I don't develop over six months, but usually because I like, challenges. I like trying different, looks and mediums. So it's usually a departure from the previous book.
Reeta: Cool.
Darren: Just to keep it interesting, you know?
Reeta: So that's a creative process. Yeah. And that's where ideas, at least our ideas come from.
Okay. Thank you for listening.
Darren: Go forth and create.
I didn't know we were doing that every time
Reeta: We do that every time.
Reeta: Yeah. So go forth, create.
Thank you for listening.
Walk away. You're supposed to walk away,
huh?
Thank you for listening. Walk away. I didn't.
Okay. Do it again. You didn't tell me to walk. We always do that.
I was picking up the the, I was picking up the god damn cups.
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